已经有好几十页了，选最近的热点文章，这里没有反索或反软，稀望战饭们都静下心来看。。。

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpo ... 4&postcount=569

属名JOKER454的业内原先是跨平台制作人，他们的作品因为没找到发行商，现在是某PS3独占作品制作人。

也许不让人高兴，但现实是最好不要运用XB360的真正机能，让跨平台游戏完全一样才是明智之选。做个好游戏重要，但让PS3，XB360版看上去一样更重要，以前的制作人因为做出较差的PS3版被媒体炮轰。只有做出相同的两版本才能叫好。
现在应该让那些性能最优化放在一边，结果是360玩家还是能得到好看的游戏，而PS3玩家也能得到相同的版本，每家都高兴了，这才是商业。
等等，我并不是说PS3明显弱，在某些方面他有明显优势，如CPU和容量，只是在广臆上，他更弱。
比如PS3在deferred rendering 上比XB360强。但都大多数跨平台商来说，他们只会用传统的喧染引擎。
所以我怀疑 Insomniac 会多花数百万，如果要他门把作品移植到360上。
将在在KILLZONE2和GEOW2的对比上，我们会看到deferred rendering。但为deferred rendering所花费的巨大人力财力会让很多游戏商望而却步。。。


There is a reality going on today that people won't like, but here goes anyways. It's better to leave 360 performance unused, and have both 360/PS3 versions run at parity. It just makes good business sense. Why? There's many reasons, but in the end having a deficient PS3 version gives bad press, and reflects badly on the studio. On the other hand, putting out two versions that are identical reflects very nicely on the studio and yields lots of good press. Whether or not technical boundaries of a given platform are maxed out turns out to be irrelevant. Making a good looking game is important, but making it run the same on both machines is becoming even more important. If that means leaving performance/memory unused, then so be it. Is this happening today? Yes. Does it suck? Perhaps. Does it really matter? I don't think so. In the end, the consumer doesn't really know whats going on, they are just happy that their version is running nice. 360 owners still get a good looking game and are happy. PS3 owners get a version that runs the same as the 360 version, and they are happy. Everyones happy, which is good for business.


Hold on, let's backtrack a bit. I definitely would not say the PS3 is significantly weaker. In fact there are some obvious parts of it which are far superior (cpu and storage). The problem is that, in the 'general' sense, it is weaker. By 'general' I mean for typical multi platform studios that don't want to maintain multiple engines and codebases, and who deal with a variety of game types in one studio.

For example, I think PS3 is far better suited to deferred rendering than 360 is. This advantage though is limited in the real world. First, forward/deferred rendering reminds of of the risc/cisc arguments back in the day. Which is really better? Sure, you can demonstrate situations where deferred rendering is better, but the reverse is true as well. If you are a studio that makes a variety of games, then do you really want to gamble a chunk of time/money on deferred? What happens if its better for one type of game, but worse for another? Also, memory is already very tight, can you spare more for deferred? The big problem though with going deferred, is what if you want to make a 360 version? Financially, supporting just one platform doesn't make sense anymore. I'd wager that Insomniac must be wondering how many more millions they would be pulling in if they had 360 versions of their games. As previously mentioned though, at least in my opinion, 360 is not a good platform to go deferred. So what do you do? Does the studio build and maintain two engines? Not a chance. For most multi platform studios you stick with a more traditional rendering engine. This does not play as well to the PS3's strengths, so that's why I say in the 'general' sense, it leaves it at a disadvantage. Plus it has yet to be proven that deferred yields better results. We'll see I guess with the inevitable Gears 2 and Killzone comparisons. What deferred has shown is that it takes tons of time and money to implement, which only leads to scare more studios from it.

更新，对与这贴里天师欢乐的出现，再次贴出作者对天师口中的宝贝RSX（7600GT）的评价，欢迎天师来翻译:D

hate to harp on these kinds of details, so I'll keep it very brief. OS memory is not at parity, 360 still has lots more legroom. Plus, there is much more to RSX limitations that just vertex.

I can go on all day, but I'll just give one example. Lets say you have a shader that uses different samplers based on different circumstances. So for some pixels it may choose texture sampler 0, other cases sampler 1, etc. On 360 dealing with this is simple. Vertex side, you calculate which sampler you need, and simply pass this index value to the pixel shader. Pixel shader side it would use this index value to chose which sampler it needs, and one tex2d call gets you your value.

You cannot index into sampler registers on RSX. So what do you do? You can still calculate the index vertex side and pass it to the pixel shader. Pixel side, there's only 3 solutions I can think of. One is to use is if/else statements to determine which sampler to use. This is bad, but sometimes you have no choice. Or, you can sample from all your samplers, and use lerp's to choose which of the values to use in a branchless way. This is usually better than the above, but still not great. Lastly, if you are lucky then you can group your texures into one uber texture, and just monkey around with the texture coordinates to pick which part of the texture you want. This is even better since it's now just down to one sample and no branches, but only works if you can associate the textures together, which isn't always possible.

It's stuff like this that comes up everyday, which is partly why so few coders want to work on PS3. Then again, its because of this that PS3 coders are in huge demand and my mortgage is being paid off fast, so I guess I should be thanking Sony

[ 本帖最后由 老刘吃嫩草 于 2008-5-3 17:09 编辑 ]

对与这贴里天师欢乐的出现，再次贴出作者对天师口中的宝贝RSX（7600GT）的评价，欢迎天师来翻译

hate to harp on these kinds of details, so I'll keep it very brief. OS memory is not at parity, 360 still has lots more legroom. Plus, there is much more to RSX limitations that just vertex.

I can go on all day, but I'll just give one example. Lets say you have a shader that uses different samplers based on different circumstances. So for some pixels it may choose texture sampler 0, other cases sampler 1, etc. On 360 dealing with this is simple. Vertex side, you calculate which sampler you need, and simply pass this index value to the pixel shader. Pixel shader side it would use this index value to chose which sampler it needs, and one tex2d call gets you your value.

You cannot index into sampler registers on RSX. So what do you do? You can still calculate the index vertex side and pass it to the pixel shader. Pixel side, there's only 3 solutions I can think of. One is to use is if/else statements to determine which sampler to use. This is bad, but sometimes you have no choice. Or, you can sample from all your samplers, and use lerp's to choose which of the values to use in a branchless way. This is usually better than the above, but still not great. Lastly, if you are lucky then you can group your texures into one uber texture, and just monkey around with the texture coordinates to pick which part of the texture you want. This is even better since it's now just down to one sample and no branches, but only works if you can associate the textures together, which isn't always possible.

It's stuff like this that comes up everyday, which is partly why so few coders want to work on PS3. Then again, its because of this that PS3 coders are in huge demand and my mortgage is being paid off fast, so I guess I should be thanking Sony

引用:

原帖由 zhangjingy 于 2008-5-3 17:56 发表
这个跟LS翻译失明有关系吗?本人上来抽的可是发帖者只翻译了“in the 'general' sense, it is weaker.”，而后面对 'general' 的解释一点没翻，要想不被抽，早干嘛来着？
另外这个人早就知道了，出名就出在对 ...

来,来来,原文都在上面,为什么不翻?

RSX不是7600是什么?7800,8800?:D

引用:

原帖由 zhangjingy 于 2008-5-3 18:07 发表


in the 'general' sense, it is weaker. By 'general' I mean for typical multi platform studios that don't want to maintain multiple engines and codebases, and who deal with a variety of game types i ...

为什么你还不翻?:D
非公版7600频率略快,所以不是7600,你是这个理论吗?

引用:

原帖由 zhangjingy 于 2008-5-3 18:16 发表


RSX是24PS、8VS，7600呢？12PS、5VS，就这个还比呢？当然那12PS应该是C1实作中的PS能力水平了。
为什么要我翻译，我第1、2页的回复是抽你选择翻译啊，有内容不翻，心虚什么？还在文章中加入原文没有的内容，又是 ...

用7600的128BIT带宽来喂7800,NVIDIA出过这样畸型的显卡吗?

所以要你翻啊,作者是怎么评价次世代最强的RSX的.

hate to harp on these kinds of details, so I'll keep it very brief. OS memory is not at parity, 360 still has lots more legroom. Plus, there is much more to RSX limitations that just vertex.

I can go on all day, but I'll just give one example. Lets say you have a shader that uses different samplers based on different circumstances. So for some pixels it may choose texture sampler 0, other cases sampler 1, etc. On 360 dealing with this is simple. Vertex side, you calculate which sampler you need, and simply pass this index value to the pixel shader. Pixel shader side it would use this index value to chose which sampler it needs, and one tex2d call gets you your value.

You cannot index into sampler registers on RSX. So what do you do? You can still calculate the index vertex side and pass it to the pixel shader. Pixel side, there's only 3 solutions I can think of. One is to use is if/else statements to determine which sampler to use. This is bad, but sometimes you have no choice. Or, you can sample from all your samplers, and use lerp's to choose which of the values to use in a branchless way. This is usually better than the above, but still not great. Lastly, if you are lucky then you can group your texures into one uber texture, and just monkey around with the texture coordinates to pick which part of the texture you want. This is even better since it's now just down to one sample and no branches, but only works if you can associate the textures together, which isn't always possible.

It's stuff like this that comes up everyday, which is partly why so few coders want to work on PS3. Then again, its because of this that PS3 coders are in huge demand and my mortgage is being paid off fast, so I guess I should be thanking Sony

[ 本帖最后由 老刘吃嫩草 于 2008-5-3 18:34 编辑 ]

引用:

原帖由 zhangjingy 于 2008-5-3 18:40 发表
原来这就是7600了，什么像素渲染能力，顶点渲染能力，总线速率统统无视，那么C1的PS能力也不过是7600GT，500MHZ也不过是7600GT，是不是也可以说成是块7600呢？
这里没人说RSX是次世代最强的，不过是一些 ...

不知道是谁的次世代最强系列在LV名扬天下的.
别费话了,快翻.:D

引用:

原帖由 zhangjingy 于 2008-5-3 18:47 发表


我看你别废话，乖乖领了我前面1、2页的发言，挨抽去吧。

又见挨抽?:D PS2生化4的结果怎么样了,有结论了吗?
我好象够给你面子了吧,把作者对RSX的言论留给你来翻.怎么还不领情.:D
我怎么翻错了/作者说的很明白,PS3优势在于CPU和容量,GENERAL SENSE 方面指的是没几个公司有这财力人力来开发专用引擎.作者认为DIFFERED RENDERING上PS3强,但缺点是缺少支持.这样的大白话如果还不够,只有请天师来讲解了.:D

引用:

原帖由 zhangjingy 于 2008-5-3 19:53 发表


你翻译的“只是在广臆上，他更弱。”，后面原文对广义上的解释呢？为什么省略掉？现在开始补充说明了？早知现在何必当初呢？

我就说嘛,你来翻,除了容量和CPU这个广臆是什么臆思.:D