DF大作;
揭开蜘蛛侠‘降级’，如果我们告诉你它升级了呢？
https://www.eurogamer.net/articl ... nking-the-downgrade
Debunking the Spider-Man 'downgrade'
What if we told you it's been upgraded instead?


Those expecting confirmation of a downgrade to Marvel's Spider-Man when assessing final code should probably look away now. Having stacked up the final game against the E3 2017 presentation, our overall conclusion is that Insomniac is on the money here - there have been changes, as there are during production of any game - but there has been no technical downgrade. In fact, we'd say that the final presentation is upgraded in key respects, both technical and artistic.

We'll begin by tackling the key change that kicked off the whole episode - an adjustment in puddle placement in a scene which sees far less water coverage. It's the first image in the screenshot comparison block below, and there's no denying that the impact of the E3 2017 image is more striking. But what's more interesting is the composition of reflections in the water itself. Insomniac's Spider-Man uses reflections extensively - and brilliantly - throughout the game, and in the demo, these are rendered using a combination of screen-space and cube-map reflections.

Screen-space reflections are exactly that - elements of the scene that are visible can be repurposed and mapped onto reflective surfaces to convincing effect, but the key limitation is that parts of the scene that should be reflected but aren't rendered can't be included. For this eventuality, there is a fallback - the cube-map reflection. Think of cube-maps as static, pre-generated snapshots of the scene. The E3 demo uses tight, scene-specific cube-maps and SSR in tandem to give an effect so convincing that many even considered that Spider-Man may be using ray-tracing - but that isn't the case.

But there are changes in the final game and it seems that a specific cube-map for the scene reflections in the E3 2017 demo is possibly replaced with more generic cube-map art, giving the illusion of lower fidelity reflections. This is just a theory, but mapping scene-specific cube-maps throughout the game's reflections would be extremely difficult, so swapping to the generic art saves a lot of manpower. And we suspect that this would benefit from changing the position of water surfaces to produce the best effect, which is what has happened in the final game.

It's telling that of all the media released for the game, this is the only instance where the change is really evident. If our theory is right, this is a manpower issue, not a horsepower issue - but what's clear is that the underlying tech remains identical, and reflections remain a combination of SSR and cube-maps.

The notion of the change being performance-related - dare I say it - holds no water. For a start, I witnessed this demo being played in real-time on PS4 Pro hardware at E3 last year where it ran at the game's typically solid 30fps. Secondly, as Insomniac has stated, puddles are numerous and large in volume across the game. And finally, the truth is that Spider-Man has actually been upgraded via a day zero patch available to reviewers, which introduces dynamic resolution scaling.

The locked 1440p we measured in prior presentations is swapped out for a pixel-count that changes according to GPU load, reaching a peak of 1944p (90 per cent of 4K) in our test samples from across the game. The contested area with the adjusted puddles runs at 2816x1584 in our review code, a 21 per cent increase in resolution over the 2017 demo. It's the final nail in the coffin of the idea that the changes are performance-related - it's simply not plausible that reductions were made that would actually introduce a substantial chunk of overhead that allows for a large increase in pixel-count. Keep in mind that the rendering impact of the cube-map beneath the surface won't increase or decrease in this case - it's simply the underlying art that has changed.

The quality of Spider-Man's suit has also been a point of discussion over the last week, and again, there are changes in the final game compared to the E3 demo - but looking closely at the retail release, what we're seeing here is a re-think from the artists on what kind of material the suit should be made out of. Texture resolution is virtually identical to the original demo and the main difference here stems from a change in suit material. The E3 suit features more prominent specularity, and it's basically the difference between plastic and cloth. The final material is more diffuse in appearance while the E3 suit is extra glossy, so even though the resolution of the suit material textures is identical, the way light behaves across its surface has changed.

When in shadow, the final game exhibits a softer, diffuse appearance which is arguably more realistic - the E3 demo simply appears overly shiny and more plastic-like in comparison. In direct sunlight, the E3 demo gives the impression of a suit covered in saran wrap while the cloth material in the final game exhibits more natural light dispersal. Which one looks better is a matter of taste and varies per scene, but this is clearly an artist-driven change not one made to save on performance. The bottom line is that character detail is excellent and from a technological perspective, it's entirely consistent across the various demonstrations of the game.

Other changes between the two versions are again, entirely artist-driven. Lighting has seen some adjustment from a bright sunny day to a more overcast one, which necessitates some changes in the way shadow and especially indirect shade are handled. The missing pipe shadow in the puddle room? You'll find a similar shadow in the final game just outside where direct sunlight naturally casts a shadow. By and large, the end result is more realistic overall, sometimes dramatically so. Spider-Man also has a really neat trick in how it allows for visible interiors to be seen when running across the face of buildings - these are either missing, less defined or mostly hidden behind more reflective surfaces in the 2017 demo.

And then there's traffic: this may well be down to the dynamic nature of how cars are added into any given scene, but where there are cars visible in the demo, there are more of them in the final game. An engine-driven cutscene where a helicopter crashes onto the streets also sees obvious reflection improvements in the final game, while a pylon texture that looked a little murky in the demo gets a higher resolution upgrade in the game you'll play this week. It's all shown in the main Spider-Man analysis video embedded on this page.

So what's the real takeaway from this demo comparison? Well, honestly, I feel that Insomniac has does a tremendous job delivering on their promises. Visually, there are changes - the effectiveness of which may well be down to personal preference - but this is simply a matter of process and refinement during game development, something we've seen many times before. The bottom line is that the game looks phenomenal in its final form. I'd say that aside from the removal of the more accurate cube-map in the water room, there's improvement across the board here, with the presentation benefitting from a great deal of additional attention from the artists. Improved resolution via DRS is the icing on the cake - a final flourish that further embellishes an already beautiful game.
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更新VGTIME的翻译！！！
http://www.vgtime.com/topic/957843.jhtml
DF认为正式版游戏画面其实更好了。
　　PS4 独占游戏《蜘蛛侠》的媒体评测在昨晚正式解禁，著名技术分析机构 Digital Foundry 也在第一时间放出了他们对于本作的画面分析与技术评测。总的来说，他们认为本作的正式版画面相比 E3 演示不仅没有缩水，反而是有提升的，下面是部分重点内容的汇总。

　　● 无论是普通 PS4 还是 PS4 Pro，《蜘蛛侠》的帧数都非常稳定，99%情况下都能牢牢的锁定在30帧。

　　● 分辨率方面，游戏采用了动态分辨率技术，在 Pro 主机上最高可达到1944P，即 4K 分辨率的90%，部分特定的场景最低会下降到1368P。在普通 PS4 主机上，游戏大部分时候能保持在1080P，部分特定的场景和过场演出时分辨率会有所下降。

　　● HDR 方面，虽然不能说是顶级效果，但也达到了业界普遍以上的水平。

　　● 角色的贴图与材质质量很高，城市中的建筑物，车辆，道路，两边的商铺和街上的路人等等，都拥有丰富的细节和高质量的材质贴图。

　　● 蜘蛛侠在空中摆荡、跑酷和战斗都拥有非常丰富和自然的角色动画演出。尤其是当按住 R2 跑酷的时候，蜘蛛侠会根据当前场景做出各种跨越障碍物的动作，而且衔接的非常自然和流畅。

　　● 本作拥有非常出色的光照系统，可以说是 Insomniac 迄今为止的最高水平。游戏中阳光穿过空气产生的丁达尔效应表现也非常优秀，由其模拟产生的体积光为游戏增色不少。

　　● 游戏的动态模糊效果和运用非常出色，可以说目前业界在这方面最好的游戏之一。

　　● 死亡和部分过场切换时会出现载入画面，但时间非常短，完全在可以接受的范围内。

　　● 游戏中部分建筑会通过贴图去表现内部空间，让这些建筑外观不再是一个个巨大的玻璃反光板，这在开放世界游戏中还是比较少见的做法。但显然也有它本身的限制，如果你观察转角处的房间，就会发现问题所在了。不过总的来说，这个设计让你在空中摆荡时进一步提升了建筑的真实感，还是值得表扬的。

由于此前关于《蜘蛛侠》正式版游戏相比 E3 2017 试玩演示缩水争议引发了许多质疑和讨论，DF 在这方面做了相当多的分析与对比，下面是一些比较重点总结。

　　首先是人物贴图材质上，DF 认为其品质和细节并没有任何下降，玩家们看的变化主要是因为人物身上的光照反射效果发生了改变。事实上，E3 2017 演示中游戏整体光照比较亮，尤其是蜘蛛侠的服装反光很明显，其材质看起来更接近塑料，部分身体部位会产生明显的高光；正式版中其服装更接近布料的反光效果。

　　总的来说，DF 认为这个改变主要是出于设计上的需求，而非技术，游戏中的角色建模品质是非常优秀的，正式版中的光照实际上比 E3 2017 的演示更加真实。当然你要说哪个看起来更好，这就是个人喜好问题了。



关于水坑的问题，毫无疑问，水坑的面积肯定是减少了，这个无论是谁都能看得出来的。但从技术上来说，正式版其实只是修正水坑的位置，以及调整了在 SSR 不生效时替换的立方体贴图的样式和光照的整体柔和度，这些内容基本上都是出于美术上的考虑，与技术的关系不大。

如果你对水坑非常执着的话，那么等你正式进入游戏就会发现这个场景中的其他房间，以及游戏的更多场景中你还会看到更多水坑以及它们的反光效果并没有下降。


事实上，如果我们再仔细对比这个场景，在 E3 2017 演示中站在水坑上的角色，在地上有一个非常明显阴影，但事实上这个时候并没有任何点光源；而到了正式版中，这个阴影效果变得更加分散和柔和，这更加接近于真实光照效果。

在另一个过场动画中，可以看到房顶的水坑位置也发生了变化，而同样是晴天，整体光照效果也发生了改变；甚至原本演示中的负片先生也换成了一个戴面具的普通敌人，侧面告诉我们这个场景从演示到正式版的改动是非常大的；仔细对比还会发现 E3 2017 演示中，站在直升机旁边的负片先生衣服是纹丝不动的，而正式版中角色的西装会因为直升机造成的风压而抖动，显然后者显得更加真实；在后面一个场景中，同样是大晴天，E3 演示中直升机内部却非常暗，正式版则明亮了不少，又是一个明显的光照调整。

　　总的来说，DF 认为这些变化纯粹是美术方向以及人力上的问题，与性能表现无关。



再进一步仔细对比，会看到 E3 2017 演示中还没有加入动态模糊效果，同时可以注意到游戏的远景相对而言比较简陋；而正式版不仅加入了动态模糊，远景细节也丰富多了。


类似这样的调整其实还有很多，比如这个空中的场景，光照的明暗度明显不同了；另一个直升机划过街道的场景，可以看到正式版游戏中建筑物的反光发生了变化；在最后一个直升机在空中被蜘蛛网在空中捆绑的场景，整体光照都发生了很大的变化，而 DF 认为正式版的效果要比 E3 演示更真实。



总体来说，DF 认为 Insomniac 在《蜘蛛侠》的画面上交出了一份令人满意的答卷，诚然游戏的演示和最终成品在视觉上是有很多改变，这在游戏的开发过程中是再正常不过的事情了，至于玩家们喜欢哪种这就是每个人的审美与喜好问题了。

[ 本帖最后由 狂风007 于 2018-9-6 11:21 编辑 ]

posted by wap, platform: VIVO
大法给df充值了
实锤

引用:

原帖由 夏青 于 2018-9-5 10:33 发表
posted by wap, platform: VIVO
大法给df充值了
实锤

一定是这样

posted by wap, platform: iPhone
反正等后天解锁了，管他怎么评～～

posted by wap, platform: iPhone
古墓也要发售了，就看哪个高分了

就承认个缩水能咋滴？！
为何一定要和别人过不去？

缩水也好，没缩水也罢


这就一独占游戏~~~~~

就好比荒野之息，哪怕掉帧再厉害，哪怕到处都是马赛克，你只能要么买wiiu要么买ns



这就是独占游戏的作用。也正是如今微软最缺乏的。

posted by wap, platform: Android
看了4k版本的df对比，确实不算缩，很多地方还加强了。蜘蛛侠服装上的高光，只是为了整体光影更加真实，改变了美术风格。
另外，因为并非光线追踪，在打斗场景减少水洼的部分只是为了避免出现一些不合理的光影现象。

看不出来缩没缩，但是画面肯定是有变化。。。。



















[ 本帖最后由 littlezoo 于 2018-9-5 15:26 编辑 ]

引用:

原帖由 littlezoo 于 2018-9-5 15:24 发表
看不出来缩没缩，但是画面肯定是有变化。。。。

真正玩游戏的人，是不会在意这些细节的

然而我坛玩的显然都不是游戏~~~

posted by wap, platform: iPhone

引用:

原帖由 @quigonjinn  于 2018-9-5 15:05 发表
缩水也好，没缩水也罢


这就一独占游戏~~~~~

就好比荒野之息，哪怕掉帧再厉害，哪怕到处都是马赛克，你只能要么买wiiu要么买ns



这就是独占游戏的作用。也正是如今微软最缺乏的。

要么PC爸爸4K@60 加中文美滋滋

引用:

原帖由 reg-neo 于 2018-9-5 15:34 发表
posted by wap, platform: iPhone
要么PC爸爸4K@60 加中文美滋滋

然而尴尬的是连玩个NS、PSV都要皮角的主，4K@60的PC爹爹可以算是一辈子都难以达到的梦想了~~~

引用:

原帖由 reg-neo 于 2018-9-5 15:34 发表
posted by wap, platform: iPhone
要么PC爸爸4K@60 加中文美滋滋

独占会出pc版吗？

posted by wap, platform: VIVO

引用:

原帖由 @quigonjinn  于 2018-9-5 15:05 发表
缩水也好，没缩水也罢


这就一独占游戏~~~~~

就好比荒野之息，哪怕掉帧再厉害，哪怕到处都是马赛克，你只能要么买wiiu要么买ns



这就是独占游戏的作用。也正是如今微软最缺乏的。

例子举的不好，狂野之息可以玩PC

引用:

原帖由 lightling 于 2018-9-5 15:52 发表
posted by wap, platform: VIVO
例子举的不好，狂野之息可以玩PC

呵呵，皮角玩家的思路永远都会让人惊讶的~~~